tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post4194638689164184960..comments2024-03-26T00:09:13.941-07:00Comments on Dungeon of Signs: Fighting Goblins in a Creative WastelandUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-52999250359310922982018-02-13T17:31:33.896-08:002018-02-13T17:31:33.896-08:00I'd be saying you made a mistake even botherin...I'd be saying you made a mistake even bothering even giving ten seconds of your time to a rag like Kotaku, but your post is good nonetheless.Bob Somethinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13638406211956979341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-33727348112711442522018-02-11T06:56:37.667-08:002018-02-11T06:56:37.667-08:00roll a dice for intelligence of the leader of any ...roll a dice for intelligence of the leader of any group of goblins and run up a list of possible tactics the more intelligent might just slaughter the PCs with...Structured Answerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16099134783225642045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-8139868428240728812018-02-07T00:49:15.507-08:002018-02-07T00:49:15.507-08:00I like the idea that goblins don't like to fig...I like the idea that goblins don't like to fight. All to many encounters assume the monster exists to fight the characters, but a runt would probably prefer to do something else. northierthanthouhttps://northierthanthou.com/2017/11/13/you-otter-see-the-whales-in-sitka/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-78270591916844427202018-01-31T21:47:25.437-08:002018-01-31T21:47:25.437-08:00Oh I don't disagree that making fights with we...Oh I don't disagree that making fights with weak enemies interesting is possible, but I do think the "goblin fight" is a problem of d&d design, not because goblins can't murder characters (Trey of the excellent Sorcerer's Skull reports that nominally well run Phandelver goblins can just about TPK some PCs), but because the fights are being run badly.<br /><br />It's bad GMing, both a lack of trying to evoke wonder and axlack of having enemies utilize the fictive postioning that tabletop allows and excels at.<br /><br />When tabletop encounters are treated with videogame logic they are boring, because what takes 30v seconds to "grind" in a videogame takes 20 minutes or more for every player and the GM in tabletop. It's inside the box thinking for sure, but worse - wrong box.Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-80505757371181973802018-01-31T17:58:43.592-08:002018-01-31T17:58:43.592-08:00Ha. "Tucker's kobolds"...that's ...Ha. "Tucker's kobolds"...that's the first time I believe I've seen that.<br /><br />It's funny how interesting "boring monster" encounters can become when you just start exploring the possibilities of their use...and how deadly. Often it starts with just having them act in numbers. Packs of any type of monster tend to be difficult and dangerous in cramped (dungeon) confines...places where that wand of fireballs can't be employed. Fatigue rules (present even in B/X) can bring a fear factor to warriors whose sword arms are tired from slaying relentless, "weak" foes. <br /><br />However, the things that make goblin combat bearable, even interesting, in B/X...reaction, group rolled initiative, morale rules which speed combat...may not be present in the latest edition of D&D, which appears to be what Ms. D'Anastasio plays (judging by her notes about initiative). Her complaint, with regard to bland mechanics, is one of system. After all, early editions allow ready access to the "sleep spell," perfectly made for dealing with such low-level mobs...so long as one is tactically sound about when to use it.<br /><br />But you're right: the issue of bland monster could easily be rectified with a little imaginative re-skinning. It seems like a really weak-sauce complaint to me. But then, from the dozen or so comments I perused, it appears there's a lot of "inside the box" thinking going on here.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-15000081303456914292018-01-29T11:55:56.731-08:002018-01-29T11:55:56.731-08:00I also try to make encounters more meaningful with...I also try to make encounters more meaningful with these lesser enemies. I like running a game with seasoned players and watch them try and figure out exactly what creatures they have encountered.<br /><br />Being more tactical minded (and loving the streamlined rules in 5e), I also appreciate the small tactical nuances given to almost every monster with the addition of "traits."<br /><br />For example, the Goblins have the Nimble Escape trait. This allows a bonus action to Disengage or Hide on each of their rounds. In practice, this allows Goblins (MV 30) to rush in, attack, Disengage (which does not provoke an opportunity attack) and maneuver to a potentially more defensible position/ambush, or at least out of range of the PC's melee counter-attack. It could also be used to lure the PCs into an ambush or volley of missile fire etc.<br /><br />Kobolds can utilize their trait called Pack Tactics. This gives them Advantage on attack rolls if the target of their attack is within 5 feet of an ally. The Kobolds in the back rank would get advantage with their missile fire while the front rank is engaged in combat. This is a nice little tweak and potentially makes these critters more interesting (dangerous) to combat.<br /><br />Orcs have the Aggressive feature, which gives them an bonus Dash move each round. This allows for flanking, encirclement and potentially terrifying shifts in combat momentum.<br /><br />Bugbears can be lethal if attacking with surprise, adding an extra 2d6 to an already brutish attack.<br /><br />PCs may want to consider counter measures such as defensive terrain, reach weapons, readying actions and consideration of their own "run-away" options.<br /><br />Nice article, thank you.<br /><br />Jon<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10723607108974138663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-58490633806512077692018-01-28T17:26:41.267-08:002018-01-28T17:26:41.267-08:00I always describe goblins as looking like "de...I always describe goblins as looking like "deformed children suffering from some sort of skin disease" or variants of the same.Bearded-Devilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16415023478845579936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-21210754119359150412018-01-28T13:30:21.569-08:002018-01-28T13:30:21.569-08:00I tend to agree that mechanics and playstyle are c...I tend to agree that mechanics and playstyle are coupled. This is precisely part of the problem that D'Anastasio identifies. <br /><br />The visual interest and evocative details of goblin encounters are simple to bend, change and warp to make them less dull - but as long as the mechanics and default vanilla setting promote the massacre everything encountered the combat interaction will remain the default, dressed up a bit, but still repetitive. This is why breaking free of either the specific mechanics (e.g. making low level enemies far more risky) or general play locus (making combat encounters less automatic/desirable)is also necessary.<br /><br />As to re-skinning - there's nothing that says you can't modify things to make them slightly different (e.g. give the guano golems a stinking miasma effect or something)to offer a distinct feel, but it's not going to matter if the distinction is purely cosmetic - D&D's goblins have nothing distinctive that requires them to be orange pointy-earred guys rather then ratmen, feral children, or evil toys possessed by a poltergeist. <br />Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-29669567271423837882018-01-28T13:15:32.248-08:002018-01-28T13:15:32.248-08:00Points well taken. I think there's something ...Points well taken. I think there's something to be said for wedding concepts to mechanics---like I can just say your thief does a backflip over some guy's head before delivering a backstab on him and you might feel really cool, but the feeling of accomplishment when you roll acrobatics and beat a DC 25 to "really" pull off that flourish is something--to me at least. That's why I can never really feel happy with "reskinning"---like, these are my Guano Golems, stat as goblins; I'm never happy with 'divorcing' mechanics from the imagined world in the game I guess. <br /><br />But I agree that it's a shift in thinking not edition or mechanics that makes all the difference. When you treat monsters as "mobs"---mere obstacles, in other words--you lose out on infinite possibilities that enrich the game. Of course sometimes you're feeling the session needs a little flight-or-fight spice so a purple worm bursts through the wall. But intelligent monsters being used like that always smacked of wastefulness to me. Stitch Seamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02493128814546844907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-73319077959573479702018-01-28T12:26:17.875-08:002018-01-28T12:26:17.875-08:00It's weird, but having run Pathfinder, their v...It's weird, but having run Pathfinder, their version of goblins always seemed to be risk-free, time-wasting, but INTERESTING. It might have just been the way that I ran them, or the way they presented them, but every goblin encounter I ran was predicated on EVERY goblin did something interesting on EVERY round. Ideally, the action was reckless, vicious, and violent, but tactically sensible wasn't anywhere in the top five. <br /><br />It made my players LOVE goblin fights. The goblin might chase a chicken with a meat cleaver, or shove a gnome into a well, or bite a villager's arm. It might actually attack them, but it would usually do so either in a memorable tactic (trying to set them on fire or something) or in a memorable way (singing spontaneously composed snippets of song while doing so). <br /><br />5e, unlike GURPS, for instance, doesn't have a lot of leeway for low-level monsters to vary their combat effectiveness from moment to moment, but well-written (not designed) opponents can be fun for the group even if their actual numerical fight performance is just subtracting their hit points over x number of rounds. <br /><br />I'm not sure, however, that 5e gives you much guidance there either. Monster presentation seems extremely brief--so the DM who knows how to make encounters interesting CAN do so, but the DM who is learning doesn't get any help. Butch Arthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04399307369483626339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-27590346501785598662018-01-28T09:41:51.990-08:002018-01-28T09:41:51.990-08:00Of course, re-skinning monsters is a basic and key...Of course, re-skinning monsters is a basic and key step to monster design and placement, and likewise of course it's possible to run an encounter with 1HD enemies that's dangerous.<br /><br />My issue is with the claimed default play-style in (presumably) 5th edition and its presentation of goblins that leads to risk free, time wasting and uninteresting encounters.Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-57068267399296000792018-01-28T09:38:46.419-08:002018-01-28T09:38:46.419-08:00Not familiar with it, but again this article isn&#...Not familiar with it, but again this article isn't really about OSR goblins/goblin reskins or stand-ins - it's about the apparent lack of these simple steps in the "mainstream" 5E community. Not sure the post will make it out to that gang, but I do hope it does - the fix is easy.Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-61937566962129270672018-01-28T09:18:54.689-08:002018-01-28T09:18:54.689-08:00I turned my gobbos from "XP fodder" to &...I turned my gobbos from "XP fodder" to "something interesting" by making them highly mutable in my games. The barest amount of magical tinkering will produce a wonderful variety of horrible little monsters. The mechanical difference between a Small shortbow and a hairless mutant spitting acid is pretty negligible, but the PC's reaction is quite different, and it also gives every wizard worth his tower a nest of rainbow-colored sins-against-creation in the basement, to be appeased with shinies or food or affection. There's plenty of room for "design space" in 1hd packs of critters, and after one MU was melted after he let his torch burn out, the rest of the party developed a healthy respect for goblins. Get creative, get weird, and don't be afraid to cause grievous bodily harm to PC's who wander off by themselves.squigglesworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09937495295804627729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-3663279126185290912018-01-28T08:49:37.495-08:002018-01-28T08:49:37.495-08:00Tallow’s Deep is not boring. ;)Tallow’s Deep is not boring. ;)Gnarley Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11942095647867654862noreply@blogger.com