tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post5610185425412580545..comments2024-03-26T00:09:13.941-07:00Comments on Dungeon of Signs: Map design thoughts.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-64775930528796920312013-08-05T09:11:13.861-07:002013-08-05T09:11:13.861-07:00One thing I've enjoyed doing is using just the...One thing I've enjoyed doing is using just the very basics of usage in Google Sketchup to think more in 3D. Just from an overall design sense. I think a lot of old school map creation is too This Level, then This Level, then This Level'ish. Not surprisingly, 3d pc games of late, such as Torchlight, Diablo III, Gods Of War 3, several others have actually taught me that thinking in 3 dimensions , and extreme scales can be rewarding as GM and player alike. NOW, how to represent and more importantly, PRESENT such dungeon designs to G+ players ... I'm still trying to find a method to "reveal" in 3d. I've love to be able to have a Sketchup app within G+ that would allow for "REVEAL" by fog of war. Anyhow, I digress. Great article.Peter Robbinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03528363130629385152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-1525125605647721542013-08-05T06:25:38.755-07:002013-08-05T06:25:38.755-07:00I made a mini-mega-dungeon (hmm, surely that's...I made a mini-mega-dungeon (hmm, surely that's just a normal dungeon!) that was mapped and designed to be a drop-in/drop-out dungeon, with a limited opening time (my Lottery Dungeon), which was good for single session runs.Simon Forsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01243845335993440168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-9494524364696474092013-07-31T09:55:47.804-07:002013-07-31T09:55:47.804-07:00Open table; funhouse dungeons and largely empty ro...Open table; funhouse dungeons and largely empty rooms are all old school appraoches that I don't care for in the least. Further, I tend to know what every room I am drawing was used for, or I figure it out as I am creating the dungeon. I follow a very similar design philosophe to yours, actually. However, drawing a map, whether it's a structure or wilderness, is an exercise in exploration for me. I don't know what is there until I'm done, and I often discover a thing or ten in the process. Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145284080419502886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-34640204168975859882013-07-30T07:55:13.793-07:002013-07-30T07:55:13.793-07:00I didn't play much WOW before I realized I mis...I didn't play much WOW before I realized I missed D&D, but it certainly is a titan in the roleplaing world and I suspect a lot of smart folks get paid quite well to design its dungeons. Agreed on the confusing nature of simple computer game dungeons, but I don't think one can easily convert them to table top. Too complex to describe. I find even using idd shaped rooms is challenging.<br /><br />The thing about dungeon realism that I wanted to showis that it's also artfice. The wwii buried factory would be awful to explore in d&d - as would any real cave system. The key for me is finding a nice compromise that feels 'real enough'.<br /><br />Dungeon size and session length is tricky, Running ASE it was hard to really get much done in two hours - long corridors and empty rooms make players drift off. Apollyon is more modular, with named areas that cover a few maps but aren't really continous with the rest. So far the size of it all has prevented players from connecting all the maps.<br />Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4607464045429311026.post-34607538497475469942013-07-30T05:56:43.304-07:002013-07-30T05:56:43.304-07:00Wow, there are many insightful thoughts here.
The...Wow, there are many insightful thoughts here.<br /><br />There's an old article from the early days of Dragon Magazine called "Let There Be A Method to Your Madness" that explores a rational approach for building a dungeon - and then spends a lot of time showing how the dust of ages and march of time will obfuscate the original intentions and generate mystery. I don't recall it being a popular approach in the OSR spheres. However, when we twist the perspective the way you suggest - that rational dungeons permit player decisions and planning by letting them extrapolate on known information - the whole thing becomes a lot more defensible.<br /><br />I tend to struggle with loony, funhouse designs anyway.<br /><br />The evolution of WOW mapping is super interesting. I'm no MMO player, but recently got roped into Skyrim by the rest of the family, and immediately noticed how simple maps still feel interesting when you are navigating the space in real time (and not actually, you know, staring top down at a piece of graph paper). We have our trapped ourselves in our own aesthetic.<br /><br />I'm a big believer in supporting episodic gaming with a changeable crew, but I don't feel like we need to change our megadungeon approaches - players don't need completion to turn back when time is short and reset for next week. The benefits of better week-to-week gaming by letting the group leave frequently outweight the resource management sub-games that enter the picture with dungeon camping. But I could see a modular design approach where the 100-room sprawling dungeon level is replaced by 6-10 mini structures with 10-15 rooms each - particularly if the dungeon concept had the head space for many different themes and sub themes that warrant separation.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.com